When former President Donald J. Trump criticized E. Jean Carroll in CNN Wednesday nightsat least one person wasn’t looking: Mrs. Carroll.
She was asleep and did not learn of his comments calling her decades-old sexual assault claim “false” and a “made-up story” until Thursday morning, when her lawyer sent her a transcript, she said.
“It’s just stupid, it’s disgusting, it’s vile, it’s disgusting, it hurts people,” Carroll said in an interview with The New York Times on Thursday, adding that she had been “insulted by better people.”
Mr Trump’s comments came just one day after a Manhattan jury awarded Ms Carroll $5 million in damages and found him responsible for sexually abusing her in the mid-1990s in a department store dressing room and also for defaming her on her Truth Social platform.
Mr. Trump, responding to questions from the CNN moderator about Tuesday’s Manhattan jury verdict, called Ms. Carroll a “crazy job” and said her civil trial was “a rigged deal.” The audience came mainly from Republican groups, and his comments drew applause and laughter.
Carroll said she was enraged when her longtime hairstylist told her Thursday morning that the hairstylist’s 15-year-old son was talking about what Trump had said on television Wednesday.
“I am upset on behalf of young men in America,” Ms. Carroll said. “They can’t listen to this nonsense and outdated view of women, which is a caveman view.”
Carroll, 79, is now weighing whether to file a new defamation lawsuit against Trump, said his attorney, Roberta A. Kaplan. In addition to the case that ended Tuesday, Carroll has an earlier defamation lawsuit against the 76-year-old Trump that is still pending. Trump argued in that case that he cannot be sued because he made those comments in his official capacity as president.
Carroll made it clear in the interview that, despite taunts from Trump, he saw the jury’s verdict this week as validation of his version that he sexually assaulted her in the mid-1990s, something he has denied in repeatedly and out loud.
“I’m delighted that we won,” she said. “That’s it. He did it. He knows he did it.”
Trump’s attorney, Joseph Tacopina, filed a notice of appeal in Trump’s favor on Thursday.
In the wide-ranging interview, Carroll, accompanied by her lawyers, addressed why she believes the jury found Trump responsible for sexually abusing her, but not for raping her, as she had long claimed; how she felt when she was aggressively interrogated by Mr. Tacopina; why she didn’t scream when Trump assaulted her; and the rituals that she and her lawyers performed each day of the two-week trial.
She made it clear that she respected the jurors, six men and three women, who the judge kept anonymous and who, she said, remained an enigma to her.
“It was like ‘Saturday Night Mystery Theatre’ every time they walked in,” Ms. Carroll said. “I studied their faces and they were absolutely expressionless, like nine statues.” She added: “I never cracked a smile, never raised an eyebrow, never batted a left eyelash.”
It was those jurors who reviewed the evidence and testimony of Ms. Carroll and 10 other witnesses called on her behalf before returning a verdict in less than three hours.
Ms Carroll, in the interview, blamed herself for her decision to find Trump responsible for sexually abusing her, but not rape.
“I didn’t make myself clear when I was testifying,” Ms. Carroll said.
Under New York law, according to Ms. Carroll’s attorney, Ms. Kaplan, penile penetration must occur for there to be rape. Ms. Carroll had testified that after Mr. Trump led her into Bergdorf’s lingerie department and into her dressing room, he pushed her against a wall and inserted her fingers and then her penis into Ms. Carroll’s vagina. she.
“I couldn’t see anything that was going on,” Ms. Carroll had told the jury. “But I certainly could feel it. She certainly, she could feel that pain in her finger getting stuck.”
In Thursday’s interview, Ms Carroll noted that she had been married twice, saying: “I know what a penis feels like, and he inserted his penis.”
Trump has not only denied any assault, but has claimed that he was not even at Bergdorf’s house, that he did not know Carroll, and that he would not have raped her anyway because he was not her “type.”
By their verdict, the jury indicated that they believed Ms. Carroll. Michael Ferrara, another of Ms. Carroll’s lawyers, noted in the interview that the jury’s handling of the case demonstrated that the process was not rigged.
“If they just wanted to get Donald Trump, why not check the rape box?” said Mr. Ferrara. “They didn’t do that because they really considered the evidence.”
Ms Carroll delivered visceral testimony, telling the jury about the attack in all its grim details, and that it had ended her romantic life.
Then, she was interrogated by Mr. Tacopina for almost two days. She described in the interview how her lawyers prepared her for questioning by Mr. Tacopina, who is known for his charm but also his aggressiveness: “They told me that she would do everything possible.”
“By the time I sat down, I was prepared. If you notice, I always wore a fitted jacket just to hold it together, you know, as a kind of armor against Joe Tacopina.”
Mr. Tacopina repeatedly pressed her on why she had not screamed during the assault. She told him that she was too scared and that she had been fighting. After more back and forth, she declared, “I’m telling you, he raped me whether I screamed or not.”
In the interview, Ms. Carroll recalled the exchange. “This is not the 16th century,” she said. “I was almost ashamed for him. just embarrassed. How do you dare?”
“Defaming a woman for not screaming is absurd,” he added.
Tacopina did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
During the trial, Carroll said, she tried to stay off social media. At night, she said, she was in bed by 7, and every morning her stylist would visit and pray with her, though Ms. Carroll said she is not a religious person.
“That became the ritual,” Carroll said.
Ms. Carroll said that after the verdict, she returned to Ms. Kaplan’s office. The wine was flowing.
“There was so much joy,” said Ms. Carroll. “We almost floated to the top of the roof.”
Ms Kaplan, her lawyer, said Thursday that a decision would soon be made on whether Ms Carroll will file another libel suit in light of Mr Trump’s comments on CNN.
“Everything is on the table, obviously, and we have to seriously consider it,” Ms Kaplan said.
As for Ms. Carroll, she said she feels ready to move on in her personal life, maybe even date again.
“I wasn’t having an affair and I knew something was desperately wrong,” Carroll said.
She testified at trial that she had long blamed herself for flirting with Trump after their chance meeting at Bergdorf’s and allowing him to take her to the lingerie aisle and dressing room, where he attacked her.
With her lawsuit over and Trump held accountable, Carroll said she was open to exploring that part of her life again.
“Let’s see if I can do it,” he said.
He paused briefly.
“Yes, I’m going to, I’m going to, so be careful.”
