Interview: ‘South Korea must temporarily acquire nuclear weapons’

South Korean lawmaker Thae Yong-ho was once a high-ranking North Korean diplomat. In 2016, while Pyongyang’s deputy ambassador to the UK, he defected with his family to the South. Less than four years after his family arrived in Seoul, Thae won a local election and became a member of the National Assembly representing the city’s wealthy Gangnam district.

As a member of the assembly, Thae has served on the Foreign Affairs and Unification committee, drawing on his unique experience in North Korea to help shape South Korean policy. On March 8, South Korea’s ruling People’s Power Party elected Thae to its supreme council, making him the first defector to enter the leadership of a South Korean political party.

The FRG Korean Service interviewed Thae on March 16 to discuss the struggles facing North Korean fugitives who have resettled in South Korea, North Korean security, North Korean leadership, and other topics. . The interview has been edited for length and clarity.

RFA: You are the first North Korean defector to become a member of the South Korean National Assembly, and you have continued to lead the way by becoming the first defector to rise to the top leadership of a major political party. What does its success mean in terms of South Korean society’s view of North Korean fugitives?

Thae: I feel that the window of prejudice and discrimination against North Korean fugitives in South Korean society has been broken again. I think this is an opportunity to show that South Korea is a truly diverse and inclusive society. In countries like North Korea and China, being a member of the Standing Committee means that you have become the best of the best. But the fact that I came in as an elected official is really great for anyone who knows this structure. I hope it is an opportunity for new hope for the North Korean fugitives who have fallen into a sense of defeat and pessimism.

RFA: What do you imagine Kim Jong Un might be thinking seeing a former member of his regime elected as a member of the supreme council of a South Korean political party?

Thae: Kim Jong Un receives daily briefings from the United Front Department on the political and economic situation in South Korea. (He) probably thinks that if this news reaches North Korea, it will be a big problem. He could also worry that there will be more breaks with the elite. (Most North Koreans) probably won’t know this right away, but this is the age of the Internet, and many North Koreans abroad are using cell phones or the Internet. Sooner or later it will become a well-known fact.

FRG: North Korea continues to promote nuclear and missile advancement. What do you think are Kim Jong Un’s true intentions? And how do you think South Korea and its allies should respond to this?

Thae: One goal is to develop nuclear weapons to completely subdue South Korea with nuclear weapons. The other is for the United States to reach nuclear negotiations with North Korea and respond to nuclear disarmament negotiations on North Korea’s terms.

First of all, we are currently running a large joint ROK/US military exercise called Freedom Shield, and it is based on extended deterrence. However, if Kim Jong Un backs down, the end of the North Korean regime will come quickly under the power of a huge conventional force.

Next, South Korea must temporarily acquire nuclear weapons. North Korea has nuclear weapons, South Korea does not. The United States has nuclear weapons, so North Korea is trying to negotiate nuclear disarmament between countries with nuclear weapons.

So if (the South has) nuclear weapons, we have a justification to confidently engage in nuclear disarmament negotiations.

RFA: In your book, “Third Floor Secretary Room Password,” you said that past negotiations with North Korea were hoaxes intended to waste time. If South Korea temporarily possesses nuclear weapons and enters into nuclear negotiations with North Korea, how should Seoul’s approach differ from previous negotiations?

Thae: Telling (North Korea) to get rid of (the missiles) all at once won’t work. We have to go step by step. Let’s get rid of ICBMs by mutual verification. For the next step, let’s get rid of missiles (SLBMs) ​​from submarines. We must lead the way to denuclearization by building trust through nuclear disarmament step by step, as Russia (or its predecessor state, the Soviet Union) and the United States have done.

RFA: There are many criticisms of this proposal. Some say that if South Korea were to acquire nuclear weapons, international sanctions could be imposed and the alliance between the Republic of Korea and the United States could be weakened. What do you think about this?

tie: We are a country that has a military alliance with the United States. So, we cannot play alone, nor unilaterally. We must go through endless discussions and negotiations with the United States. In the future, if the nuclear military alliance between North Korea, China and Russia deepens further, the US will finally reach a stage where it will carefully examine whether it is possible to fight two wars at the same time in Korea. Peninsula and in Taiwan, facing China.

Anticipating these steps, we must constantly negotiate and discuss with the United States. We must never give up without setting these goals and negotiating with the United States.

RFA: Does this mean that we can expect the issue of international sanctions to be resolved naturally if there is dialogue with the United States?

Thae: Right, as long as the United States agrees. We have to convince the US that it is ultimately in our best interest to arm ourselves and strike a nuclear balance with North Korea.

FRG: The North Korean regime has passed its leadership from father to son for three generations. Do you think the Kim dynasty can continue to the fourth generation? Will Kim Jong Un’s daughter Kim Ju Ae one day rule North Korea?

tie: I believe that the North Korean regime will never reach the fourth generation with Kim Ju Ae. Since Kim Jong Un came to power, the North Korean regime has gone too far in a very unstable and abnormal direction over the past decade.

I wonder if Kim Jong Un is really so nervous that he is making such a fuss for his 10 year old daughter to succeed him. Another problem is that the military and government leadership cannot remain stable year after year. They are constantly changing players. This means that there is no consensus or solidarity between Kim Jong Un and the leaders around him. So, mistrust is building up. I think that’s why they are constantly changing staff.

So the young people who are growing up in North Korea have no loyalty to the North Korean system. They only value reality and dream of a more open and prosperous country. When they grow up to become the backbone of North Korea in their 40s and 50s, I think the Kim Jong Un system will inevitably collapse.

RFA: However, experts have raised the possibility that Kim Ju Ae is the successor to Kim Jong Un. Isn’t it at least possible?

tie: I wonder if Kim Jong Un would really hand over power to his daughter, not a son. I think that now he himself is constructing this image that the next succession will be four generations because he has children.

Also, if Kim Jong Un is not sure of his health right now, let’s say he got sick today, then (his sister) Kim Yo-jong has no choice but to emerge as a replacement. To some extent, Kim Yo-jong would rule.

I think it may be part of a power struggle to make it clear that Kim Yo-jong cannot rule indefinitely, but will have to hand over power to Kim Jong Un’s sons when they are adults.

RFA: According to the recently published book “The lady from Pyongyang who came from London”, Written by his wife O Hye-son, it seems that he worked very hard while in North Korea. In his book, “Third Floor Secretaries Room Password,” he said that the moment he defected from North Korea to the UK, “the tears flowed unceasingly.” Can you explain more about how you felt at that moment?

tie: Two emotions crossed my mind. One was thinking of defecting from North Korea at my age, and I thought that I had lived such a wasted life for so long. The other thing was that I thought about what kind of life I would live from then on. I was leaving North Korea and coming to South Korea. I vowed to dedicate the rest of my life, to the end, for freedom and democracy and the reunification of the Korean Peninsula.

RFA: People in North Korea are listening to Radio Free Asia Broadcasting. Is there anything you would like to tell them directly?

tie: Just because you were born in North Korea, you are living a difficult life right now. I think you have to overthrow the Kim Jong Un regime if you want to live a free life like South Korea and be treated as a human being like people in other countries. When Kim Jong Un’s regime collapses, that will be the day you will find a life worthy of human dignity.

Translated by Claire Shinyoung Oh Lee. Edited by Eugene Whong.